The position of Lord Shiva

The position of Lord Shiva

Postby admin » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:38 pm

Q. Is Lord Shiva the supreme as many in India say or if not what is his position and why do people give more importance to Lord Shiva even though Lord Krishna spoke the Bhagavad-Gita do we really need to worship him and lord Ganesha?

A. Lord Shiva is unlimitedly glorious. Lord Shiva is in fact far above the other devas like Indra and Lord Brahma. The others are all jivas; they are conditioned living beings empowered in various ways for the administration of the material world. But Lord Shiva is above them all. He is practically on the same level as Lord Vishnu Himself.

Still, a distinction exists, for Lord Shiva is directly in touch with the material energy whereas Lord Vishnu is always beyond it. The Brahma-samhita gives the example that Lord Vishnu is like milk whereas Lord Shiva is like yogurt. There is no difference between yogurt and milk. Still, milk is the original substance, of which yogurt is a transformation.

Lord Shiva may properly be regarded as being non-different from Lord Vishnu, because Lord Shiva is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu for performing specific functions. So when Lord Shiva is glorified as the Supreme Lord, the glorification is correct because Lord Shiva is the most highly empowered and exalted representative of Lord Vishnu.

In one sense, all living beings are non-different from Lord Vishnu, because Lord Vishnu is everything (vasudevah sarvam iti). In another sense, all living beings are different from Lord Vishnu, because Lord Vishnu is the supreme and all others, including even Lord Shiva, are His eternal servants. Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu explained this state of affairs as acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, or simultaneous oneness and difference.

According to the Shrimad Bhagavatam (12.13.16), Lord Shiva is the greatest of all Vaishnavas, or devotees of Lord Vishnu. The relationship between Lord Vishnu and His devotees is very intimate and sublime, and especially so for the greatest of His devotees, Lord Shiva.

In a spirit of transcendental love, Lord Krishna, although the Supreme Lord, takes the role of a charioteer for a devotee like Arjuna, or a dependent child for a devotee like Yashoda. In this way, the Lord becomes the devotee of His devotee. Similarly, at Rameshwaram and elsewhere, the Lord acts as
the devotee of His most exalted devotee Lord Shiva.

It was Lord Vishnu who saved the demigods from the terrible poison, but He did so through His empowered incarnation Lord Shiva, in order to show Lord Shiva glories. With this understanding, the devotees of the Hare Krishna
movement worship Lord Shiva with the greatest reverence and respect.
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Re: The position of Lord Shiva

Postby Nitaai Gaura » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:23 pm

The Actual Secret of Lord Shiva
Adapted from Shri Padma Purana,
Uttara Khanda Chapters 235-236.
From Madhavananda Dasa's article in
the Krishna Kathamrita magazine
copyrighted by Gopal Jiu Publications.
Please support the author by
buying the Krishna Kathamrita Magazine

Parvati Said, "O Lord Shiva, You once told me that one should avoid speaking with Pasandi atheistic demon,and that doing so is worse then talking to candalas outcastes. Please tell me of what are the symptoms of such persons and what signs do they wear on their bodies?"

Shiva replied,"Those Persons who,deluded by ignorace,describw any other deity being superior to Vishnu,The Lord of the world, are said to be Pasandis. Those who,although they do not belong to the Vanaprastha asrama, use skulls, decorate their bodies with ashes and bones, have non-Vedic marks, matted hair, and wear garments of tree bark, are said to be pasandis. Those brahmanas who are devoid of the marks and symbols dear to Vishnu, such as conches, discs,and vertical-lined tilaka worn on the forehead, are said to be pasandis. That brahman who does not follow the practices given in the sastra should be known as a pasandi and should be condemned by all people. Those who have no devotion for the Lord are said to be pasandi. One who behaves as he likes and offers oblations in to the fire for the worship of deities other than Lord Vishnu should be known as a pasandi, for Lord Vishnu is the enjoyer of fruit of all sacrifices and is the deity of brahmanas. He who considers Lord Vishnu as equal to other deities such as Brahma and myself, Rudra,should always be called a pasandi. That brahmana, who with his speech, body,and deeds dose not recognize Vishnu,is a pasandi. What is the use of saying much in this regard? Those brahmanas who are not devotees of Vishnu should never be asked any questions, should never be talked to,and should never be seen,"

Parvati said,"O lord,O best of gods,I want to ask you something secret. Through love for me,please answer. I have a great doubt.The sastras condemn using skulls, dercorating the body with ashes, and wearing skins of animals. Yet,you do all these things. Why are these thing condemned? O Lord of the gods, O highly intelligent one, due to women's natural fickleness I am asking you these questions. It may be that due to your great power you do not have to follow the sastric injunctions you just described, but previously you had not instructed me in this way. Therefore,O lord, please pardon my question."

Inquired thus by Pavati in that lonely place free from people,Lord Shiva explained to her the great secrets of his own behaviour. Shiva said, "O Goddess, please listen carefully. I shall tell you a very wonderful secret. You should not repeat what I am about to tell you to common people. I shall tell you the since your body is not separate form mine. Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.

"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conqeur these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"

Lord Shiva continued, "Hearing the frightful words of the demigods, Lord Vishnu, Purushottma consoled the devas,and said to me,'O Rudra,O you of might arms, O you who are the best of the gods, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the demigods prepere a course of conduct to be followed by pasandis. Narrate to them the dark puranas, which will take them astray. O intelligent one, you should create holy texts that will cause the demons to become confused.

"'Through devotion to Me,and for the good of the world, You should approach atheistic sages such as Kanada, Gautama,Sakti, Upamanyu, Jaimini, Kapila,[not to be confused with Kapila,the son of Devahuti], Durvasa, Mrikandu, Brihaspati, Bhargava, and Jamadagni. Exert upon them your power of suggestion. Being infused by your power they will become powerful pasandis. There is no doubt about it. Empowered by you, these brahmanas will narrate to the three worlds the Puranas and doctrines in the mode of ingnorance. O Shiva, on your person you should bear symbols like a skull, animal skins, ashes, and bones. Dressed in way you should fully delude everyone in the three Worlds. You should also inaugurate the pasupata order [The pasupates are a group of followers of Lord Shiva] with its divisions like kankala, saiva, pasanda and mahasaiva. Through these persons you should preach a doctrine whose followers wear no particular identifying marks and are outside the Vedic fold. Wearing ashes and bones, they will be bereft of higher consciousness and will consider you to be the greatest god.

"'Taking to these doctrines, all of these demons will become averse to Me in a moment.There is no doubt it. O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they will undoubtedly fall down.'"

Lord Shiva then told Parvati, "O beautiful one, after hearing Lord Vishnu's words, although I am a good speaker I become helpless snd silent.Then offering my obeisances to Lord Vishnu, I said, O Lord,if I do what You have said,it will certainly lead to my destruction. It is is not possoble for me to carry out this instrustion, yet Your order is not to be disobeyed. This is very Painful."

"O goddess,hearing my words, Vishnu spkoke in such way to restore my happiness. He said,'This will not be the cause of your destruction. Do as I order you for the good of the demigods. I shall also give you the means to maintain yourself while you are preaching these demoniac philosophies. Then with compassion, Lord Vishnu gave me the prayers known as Vishnu-sahasra-nama. Vishnu said,'Installing Me in your heart, utter My indestructible mantra. This very powerful six-syllable mantra is transcendental and awards liberation to thise who worship Me with devotion. There is no doubt about this.'

indivar-dala-syamam padma-patra-vilocanam
sankhanga-sarngesu-dharam sarvabharana-bhusitam

pita-vastram catur-bahum janaki-priya-vallabham
shri-ramaya nama ity evam uccaryam mantram-uttamam

sarva-duhkha haram caitat papinam api mukti-dam
imam mantram japan nityam amalas tvam bhavisyasi

I offer my obeisances to Him, dark like the petal of a blue lotus, with lotus-petal eyes, holding a conch, a disc, and sarnga bow, adorned with all ornaments, wearing yellow ornements, having four arms, and who is the dear lord of Janaki, Sita-devi.The divine mantra, 'shri-ramaya namah,' should be chanted. It remones all lamentation and gives salvation to even sinners. One who regularly chants this mantra will be free from all contamination.[6.235.44-46]

"'All of the sinful rections due to wearing ashes and bones will all be destroyed and everthing will beacome auspicious due to reciting My mantra. O best of the gods, being pleased I shall destroy all sin. By My blessings, devotion to no other god than Me will arise. In your heart, worship Me who is the Supreme Being. Obey My order. Due to love for Me, everything will be auspicious for you. 'Having thus ordered Me, O goddes, He dismissed the hosts of gods who then returned to their own abodes. The gods led by Indra then requested me, 'O Mahadev, Shiva, Quickly perform those beneficial acts as instructed by Lord Vishnu.'"

Mahadeva then said to goddess Parvati, "O auspicious one, for the good of the gods I took to the way of the pasandis and started wearing skulls, hides, ashes, and bones. O auspicious one, as instructed by Lord Vishnu, I distributed the tamasic puranas and the pasandi Shiva doctrines. O sinless one, by entering Gautama and other brahmanas with my potency I proclaimed texts outside the Vedic fold. Adopting the system I gave, all of the wicked demons became averse to Lord Vishnu, and were enveloped in ignorance. Applying ashes to their bodies and performing severe penance, they stopped worship of Lord Vishnu and worshiped only me with flesh, blood and sandalwood.

"Receiving boons from me, they became intoxicated with power and pride. They were very much attached to the object of the senses, and were full of lust and anger. In that condition, devoid of goodness, they were defeated by the devas. Bereft of righteous paths, those who resort to this doctrine of mine alway go to hell.

"O goddess, thus this behavior of mine is only followed by me for the good of the gods. Following Lord Vishnu's order, I decorate myslf with ashes and bones. O goddess, these external marks are meant only for deluding the demons. In my heart I always meditate upon the Supreme Lord Vishnu and always chant His mantras. By chanting this great six-syllable mantra I taste the eternal nectar of ecstatic joy. O Lady with an auspicious face, I have answered all that you have asked me. Affectionately I ask you, what else do you desire to hear?"

Parvati said, "O sinless one, tell me about the tamasic scriptures that were composed by the brahmanas bereft of devotion to the Lord. O Lord of the demigods Please tell me their names in sequence.

Lord Shiva replied, "O goddess, please listen. In sequence I shall tell you about the tamasic texts. Simply by remembering them even wise persons become deluded. First,I Myself proclaimed the Shiva, pasupata, and related texts. After my power had entered him, Kanada preached the Vaisesika Philosophy. Similarly, Gautama preached Nyaya,and Kapila preached the atheistic Sankhya. Brihaspati preached the much-censured Charvaka doctrine, and Buddha proclaimed Buddhism to destroy the demons.

Padma Purana 6.236.7

mayavadam asac chastram pracchannam bauddham uchyate
mayaiva kalpitam devi kalau brahmana rupina

"Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yoga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy.

Padma Purana 6.236.8-9

apartham sruti-vakyanam darsayan loka-garhitam
sva-karma-rupam tyajya tvam atraiva pratipadyate

sarva-karma paribhrastair vaidharma tvam tad ucyate
paresa-jiva-paraikyam maya tu pratipadyate

"This mayavada advaita philosophy preached by me (in form of Adi Shankara) deprives the words of the holy texts of their acutal meaning and thus it is condemned in the world. It recommends the renunciation of one's own duties, since those who have fallen from their duties say that the giving up of duties is religiosity. In this way, I have also falsely propounded the identity of the Supreme Lord and the individual soul."

Padma Purana 6.236.10

brahmanas caparam rupam nirgunam vaksyate maya
sarva-svam jagato py asya mohanartham kalu yuge

"In order to bewilder the atheists, in Kali-yuga, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Gauranga Krishna to be without any form and without qualities."

Padma Purana 6.236.11

vedante tu maha-sastrera mayavadam avaidikam
mayaiva vaksyate devi jagatam nasha-karanat

"Similarly, in explaning Vedanta mahashastra, I described the same non-scriptural and inauspicious mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of my beloved Lord."

[As described in the seventh chapter of adi-lila of Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita, while speaking to Prakashananda Saraswati and the mayavadi sannyasis of Benares, Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu cited these texts to show how Lord Shiva had come in Kali-yuga as Shripad Sankaracharya to propound the philosophy of monism and bewilder the souls. Cited translation of texts 7,10 and 11 are based on the translation of His Divine Grace Shrila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as found in his purport to Cc. Adi 7.110.]
Nitaai Gaura
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Re: The position of Lord Shiva

Postby sourav » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:39 pm

Long ago, in the age of Swayambhuva Manu, there were many great demons like Namuchi [The demon Namuchi is described in Shrimad Bhagavatam 8.11.23-40.] who were very powerful and valorous heroes. All of them were devoted to Vishnu, acted purely, and were free from all sins. They followed the pratices laid down in the Vedas. Seeing this, all of gods head by Indra were greatly frustrated. Overcome by fear,they approached Lord Vishnu and took shelter of Him.

"The devas said,'O Kesava, only You can conqeur these great demons who cannot be conqured by all of the gods and who have washed off their sins with penance.'"

Why did Vishnu commission Shiva to devise a scheme to mislead these demons if they were behaving so nicely? It obviously follows that the demons were not causing any trouble for the devas, because the demons were devoted all time to worshiping Vishnu. Do not the demons have the right to salvation? It seems from the above paragraph that Vishnu is acting partially, and is favoring the devas and secretly wants the ill of the demons, by keeping them perpetually in darkness even though they have done nothing wrong.

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Re: The position of Lord Shiva

Postby sourav » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:54 pm

Someone answer my question please.. since Vishnu is my favorite God it is causing me distress why Vishnu acted this way.

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